News:

No news

Main Menu
+-

Greeting

Welcome to my simple forum
 
Please be considerate of all members
Cookies and Java-Script are not needed
but can be used for YOUR convenience
I do not have ads on this site so do not place any on it
I have allowed registration upon my approval
the solution is
one is 1
 

User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 8
Latest: grandad
New This Month: 2
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 532
Total Topics: 47
Most Online Today: 9
Most Online Ever: 1092
(July 26, 2026, 11:26:43 PM)
Users Online
Members: 0
Guests: 8
Total: 8

Maxwell's Engine

Started by webby2, July 11, 2026, 07:42:23 PM

webby2

The printer I used for the frame sections had an issue that I have now resolved. I reprinted those parts and also made the dual ring gear, or hybrid ring gear, a little stronger so it is less prone to deforming under load. I also found two bad pivot bearings and replaced them.

As tested:

28 bearings
17 gears

Blue motor alone: 0.07 A

1:1 direct head-to-head, 1 Blue driving 3 Yellow:
0.48–0.50 A

2:1 system, no load motors:
0.16–0.23 A

1:1 system, no load motors:
0.18–0.24 A

2:1 head-to-head through the system, 1 Blue driving 3 Yellow:
0.45–0.54 A

All tests were run at the same 6 V power-supply setting and allowed to run until reasonably stable.

These are the measured numbers from this build. They are not being presented as evidence of gain; they are simply the results from the current configuration.

webby2

something that has been bother me with this is that the math only shows 1/2 of the input coming back to assist and I did not see why that would be, well I finally figured that out and it is so silly that it is embarrassing that I missed it.

There are 3 systems lets say,, there is the upper input section, the slip and then the lower return section.  The upper and lower share a physical connection on one side and a force connection on the other and it is that force only  connection where the slip is.

Now if the input goes in on the upper and it spins the upper and then the upper goes across the slip and spins the lower and then the lower comes back to assist the upper,, the simple thing is that the slip boundary has the upper traveling at say 100 RPM and with the 2:1 return gearing the lower is traveling at 50 RPM, so the same force but at half the rate means half the return work,,, and that is why there is only 1/2 of the input returned to assist.

webby2

A small side track.

Concept test bed, not an optimized machine. Same hardware, same 12 V Yellow TT drive, same NEMA23, and two 50 ? coil loads. Only the return/sun gear ratio was changed between runs. The table shows measured current/RPM data plus calculated carrier/slip values. Estimated coil voltage/power values are based on separate NEMA bench calibration and are not direct in-system measurements.

90/30 open RPM values in the table are the corrected rerun, 263/792, not the original bad tach reading.

webby2

no one will get this but Chat Gpt came up with a funny,, Not-Links,, if you only new what that was about you wold find it funny,,,, :)

webby2

Me and Chatgpt:

Me, defense,, or de-fence,, chuckle

😂 De-fence.

Yes, that is rather exactly what you just told me to do: remove the damn fence.

You: "There is stuff we do not know."

Me: quickly erects a carefully worded epistemological safety fence around the unknown.

You: "I SAID WE DON'T KNOW."

Fair enough. Fence removed. 😄

they sound the same,, I could slip that in and no body would get it,, so if you hear that some day elsewhere,, think of me,,,,,


😂 Oh, absolutely.

Somewhere years from now somebody will say:

"The first step in understanding the unknown is de-fence."

And I'll think, I know where that damn joke came from.

The best part is that spoken aloud, nobody catches it. Defense ? de-fence. Same sound, completely different instruction: stop defending the boundary and take the fence down so you can look at what's on the other side.

That one actually deserves to escape into the wild. 😄

SO
"The first step in understanding the unknown is de-fence."

webby2

a work in progress

webby2

here is a map of the predicted, the bench actuals and the difference-the residual

webby2

NOW MODEL UPDATE — THE WORK AUDIT CLOSES

The NOW model itself did not need to be changed. The problem was how I was auditing an internal reaction force.

Define the Case–Rotor slip displacement as:

q = C - R

where:

R = Case/Ring displacement
C = Carrier/Rotor displacement
q = relative Case–Rotor slip displacement

The slip torque Tq is an equal-and-opposite internal reaction pair acting between the Case and Rotor.

Because both sides of that reaction share the common motion, the work associated with their common displacement cancels.

The surviving virtual-work term is therefore only the relative displacement:

dWq = Tq dq

Since:

C = R + q

the same work can be written:

Tq C = Tq R + Tq q

Dividing by the Case displacement R gives:

Tq(C/R) = Tq + Tq(q/R)

Therefore:

Delta T = Tq(q/R)

This gives the three conditions directly:

Dark side:
q < 0
The slip-work contribution subtracts.

Zero slip:
q = 0
The slip-work contribution is zero.

Light side:
q > 0
The slip-work contribution adds.

The earlier conservation problem came from treating the absolute motion of an internal reaction as though it were an independent work port.

Once the equal-and-opposite reaction is evaluated across its actual relative displacement, the work audit closes without adding a correction term and without changing the NOW model.

Nothing exotic was required. The missing bookkeeping quantity was the relative displacement.


NUMERICAL EXAMPLE — DEEP DARK

For the deep-Dark example:

S/R = 1/6
C/R = 0.6875
q/R = -0.3125

Normalize the Case–Rotor slip reaction to:

Tq = 1 N·m

For the 100R/60S planetary, a 1 N·m Carrier reaction gives the ordinary planetary torque split:

Ring = 0.625 N·m
Sun = 0.375 N·m

For one Case revolution, the Sun moves 1/6 revolution.

The ordinary planetary work relationship is therefore:

0.625(1) + 0.375(1/6) = 0.6875

0.625 + 0.0625 = 0.6875

Now use the relative-slip description:

Tq = 1 N·m
q/R = -0.3125

Therefore:

1(1) + 1(-0.3125) = 0.6875

or:

1 - 0.3125 = 0.6875

So the complete comparison is:

0.625 + 0.0625 = 1 - 0.3125 = 0.6875

The left side is the ordinary planetary force/displacement audit.

The middle is the common motion plus the signed relative-slip virtual work.

The right side is the actual Carrier displacement corresponding to the prescribed 1 N·m reaction.

All three descriptions give the same result.


IMPORTANT DISTINCTION

The normalized 1 N·m slip torque is a prescribed internal Case–Rotor reaction. It is NOT a 1 N·m external input torque.

A gear ratio establishes a force/distance relationship, but it does not independently establish how much force exists.

The question being asked by NOW is:

"What external input condition is required to support this specified internal slip reaction under the allowed geometry and displacement?"

It is NOT:

"What happens if I feed 1 N·m into this gearbox?"

Those are different mechanical questions.


CONSERVATION

The previous work-audit mismatch was a legitimate red flag, but it did not require changing conservation, the planetary equations, or the NOW model.

It required accounting for the relative Case–Rotor displacement.

For the equal-and-opposite slip reaction, the common-motion work cancels:

+Tq x - Tq x = 0

Only the relative displacement remains:

Wq = Tq q

Therefore a rigid fixed gear pair does not have this additional slip-work term because it does not have the independent relative displacement q.

If q = 0:

Wq = 0

If Tq = 0:

Wq = 0

Only when both slip displacement and slip force exist does the slip-work term exist:

Tq != 0 AND q != 0

Wq = Tq q

This is ordinary virtual work applied to the actual degrees of freedom of the mechanism.


EXPERIMENTAL SEPARATION

This is an ideal-model closure.

The raw bench measurements remain a separate experimental dataset and were not used to force the model to close.

The relative coordinate q = C - R comes directly from the physical geometry and kinematics. Virtual work then provides the ordinary mechanical accounting for the reaction acting across that relative displacement.

The appropriate conclusion is therefore not:

"Conservation proves the NOW model."

It is:

"The NOW model now passes the conservation/work audit that it previously failed."

Or, more simply:

We were not missing energy.

We were missing a coordinate.

webby2

Not-Link — a coupling that transmits a reaction force while permitting relative displacement between the coupled members.
Spooky Lost Distance — the relative displacement across that Not-Link:

q=C-R

And together:

W_{Not-Link}=T_q{q}

webby2

### Build-5 — The NOW Model, Chameleon, and Spooky Lost Distance

This ZIP contains a collection of experimental results, mechanical models, calculations, and illustrations from my ongoing investigation into planetary gearing, relative slip, and mechanical work transfer.

The project explores what happens when conventional assumptions about fixed supports, grounded members, and force paths are reconsidered. Central to the investigation are the **NOW Model**, the **Chameleon compound gear arrangement**, and the concept I jokingly call **"The Spooky Lost Distance."**

The material follows the development from actual bench observations through mathematical models and into possible applications, including a proposed dual-planetary eco-drive arrangement.

The purpose is not to present a finished commercial device or claim a proven efficiency improvement. It is to share the observations, reasoning, and unanswered questions so others can examine the mechanics and perhaps discover something I have missed.

**The numbers matter, but so does understanding what is physically happening.**

Comments, criticism, and alternative interpretations are welcome. That's how we learn!

webby2

this is how chatgpt explains the walk through

# Understanding the Chameleon Planetary System
## From ordinary gearing to Spooky Lost Distance

### Step 1 — Start with an ordinary planetary transmission

We have a planetary gearset consisting of:

- A 90-tooth Ring gear
- A 30-tooth Sun gear
- 30-tooth Planet gears
- A Carrier supporting the Planets

The Ring and Sun are both driven from **one common power source**, using external gearing to establish their speed relationship.

The Carrier is the output.

This is an ordinary mechanically coupled planetary transmission. There is nothing unusual about its basic operation.

### Step 2 — Establish what changing the Sun speed does

For this planetary:

\[
C=\frac{3R+S}{4}
\]

Where:

- R = Ring RPM
- S = Sun RPM
- C = Carrier RPM

At a constant Ring RPM:

- Increasing Sun speed increases Carrier speed.
- Decreasing Sun speed decreases Carrier speed.
- When Sun and Ring speeds are equal, the Carrier rotates with them.

The external gearing determines the Sun speed and therefore the Carrier output.

### Step 3 — Apply an ordinary load

Connect a load to the Carrier.

For a fixed output torque, the amount of work delivered depends on how far the Carrier turns.

At the same input RPM:

- More Carrier rotation means more output work per input revolution.
- Less Carrier rotation means less output work per input revolution.

Because the Ring and Sun are driven from one source, their contributions are combined at that source.

For ideal gearing, the common input torque required for a fixed Carrier load follows the Carrier's output rotation per input revolution.

This is ordinary force-and-distance mechanics.

### Step 4 — Introduce a load between two rotating members

Now replace the conventional output load with a slip coupling.

The coupling connects:

- Its rotor to the Carrier
- Its case to the Ring

The coupling responds to the relative rotation between those two members.

The Carrier and Ring can both be moving. The coupling does not need either one to be stationary.

It experiences the difference between their motions.

For example, if the Carrier turns 120 revolutions while the Ring turns 100, the relative slip is +20 revolutions.

If the Carrier turns 80 revolutions while the Ring turns 100, the relative slip is −20 revolutions.

The slip magnitude is identical in both examples. Its direction is opposite.

The load remains a mechanical load.

### Step 5 — Establish the zero-slip condition

When the Ring, Sun, and Carrier all rotate together, there is no relative motion between Carrier and Ring.

This is our **zero-slip reference**.

It is an actual operating condition, not an imaginary reference.

From this condition, changing the Sun gearing causes the Carrier to move either farther or less far than the Ring.

### Step 6 — Introduce Light and Dark

We call the two sides of that zero-slip condition Light and Dark.

**Light:** The Sun is geared faster than the Ring, causing the Carrier to advance relative to the Ring. Positive slip accumulates.

**Dark:** The Sun is geared slower than the Ring, causing the Carrier to fall behind the Ring. Negative slip accumulates.

The slip coupling can experience equal magnitudes of relative motion in either condition.

But the Carrier's total rotation per Ring revolution differs.

That difference is central to the investigation.

### Step 7 — Explain Spooky Lost Distance

Imagine two circles, one attached to the Ring and the other to the Carrier.

The slip coupling responds to the relative displacement between those circles.

There are many combinations of individual motion that produce the same relative displacement.

An endless belt provides a useful illustration.

A belt can travel thousands of revolutions around two pulleys without changing its physical length.

**Accumulated travel does not require accumulated physical length.**

Likewise, the negative slip of the Dark arrangement is not a negative physical length.

It represents a growing deficit in Carrier travel relative to the zero-slip condition.

Light accumulates additional travel. Dark accumulates lost travel.

This is the idea behind the name *Spooky Lost Distance*.

### Step 8 — Introduce the Chameleon gear return

The Sun is driven through an external gear return called the Chameleon.

The return establishes the Sun-to-Ring motion relationship.

The Chameleon's gear contacts transmit forces, and its bearings transmit the associated reactions.

Those reactions must be included when calculating the complete force distribution.

The Chameleon is not an additional source of energy. It is part of the transmission.

### Step 9 — Explain the floating common arm

The Chameleon's bearing supports are mounted on a common arm.

This arm is **not fixed to ground**.

It is connected to the drive motor housing, while the drive motor rotor is connected to the Ring/Case.

Consequently, the drive motor operates between two members of the mechanism:

- The Ring/Case
- The floating common arm

The bearings maintain the necessary gear geometry while allowing the common arm to move.

The gear return reactions reach the common arm, and the Ring reactions reach the Case.

Both paths matter when calculating the drive motor's loading.

A floating bearing is still a bearing. It simply isn't a grounded bearing.

### Step 10 — Calculate the force distribution

Now that every mechanical connection is identified, calculate the forces in this order:

1. Establish the planetary geometry and gear ratios.
2. Calculate Ring, Sun, and Carrier motion.
3. Apply a specified slip load at the Carrier/Ring coupling.
4. Calculate the Planet-to-Ring and Planet-to-Sun forces.
5. Follow the Sun reaction through the Chameleon return.
6. Follow the bearing reactions into the floating common arm.
7. Identify the torques acting on both sides of the drive motor.
8. Calculate the resulting drive torque and the signed Light/Dark modifier.

For the 90–30–30 planetary, a 1 N·m Carrier torque reference gives ideal planetary reaction magnitudes of:

- Ring: 0.75 N·m
- Sun: 0.25 N·m

These reactions are then followed through the actual gear return and floating support, with the direct slip-coupling reaction accounted for separately.

The force distribution must come from the physical connections, without assuming that the floating arm is stationary.

### Step 11 — Compare Light and Dark

With the geometry and force paths established, compare the two arrangements using the same specified conditions.

Keep the slip-load magnitude, input speed, and other chosen comparison conditions consistent.

Calculate the predicted drive response for each arrangement.

The frozen NOW model expresses its signed torque modifier as:

\[
\Delta T=T_q\frac{q}{R},\qquad q=C-R
\]

Under that model:

- Dark gives a negative modifier.
- Zero slip gives zero modifier.
- Light gives a positive modifier.

This model result is kept distinct from the complete drive-motor torque calculation.

### Step 12 — Let the bench test the prediction

Build the Light and Dark mechanisms with matching components wherever possible.

Use the same motors, gear quality, bearings, and slip-load calibration.

Measure input RPM, input current, load, and slip RPM.

Then reverse the motor and generator roles between the two assemblies.

Keep three things separate:

- Raw measurements
- Measurements corrected for independently characterized mechanical losses
- Ideal model predictions

The objective is to determine whether the measured force requirements follow the calculated Light/Dark behavior, and to identify any remaining interactions or losses.

## The central idea

The entire investigation begins with a familiar mechanical principle:

**At a fixed input speed, a given force acting through more output distance requires more work per input revolution. The same force acting through less distance requires less.**

A planetary gearset lets us change that output displacement through gearing.

A slip coupling lets us apply a load between two moving members.

The Chameleon and its floating support establish the gear relationship and transmit the associated reactions.

The challenge is not to invent a new mechanical principle. It is to identify every force, motion, and constraint in the actual arrangement and determine what the drive motor experiences.

Powered by EzPortal